Sep 22 2006
Are Women Asking Too Much From Their Husbands?
I thought about this after hearing a few men tease another when he announced he was just got engaged. The jokes all revolved on what the man was going to give up once he was married:
“Oh, forget about ever doing THAT again!”
“No more nights out with the boys.”
“Goodbye motorcycle – Hel-LO minivan!”
“Guess we won’t be seeing much of you anymore.”
“No more fun for you, boy.”
“You’ll have to sell your [motorcycle/sports car/comic book collection]”
At first I began laughing along with everyone else, but then I realized that at its heart, the jokes weren’t all that funny.
Is this what we’re doing to men, asking them to give up something to be with us?
Many men are more than happy to “settle down” – they’ve had their wild times, sowed them oats, climbed their mountains. They don’t feel that they are sacrificing anything to commit to one woman.
But why is the running joke that married men no longer have any fun? Is it because there’s some truth to it?
I realize that relationships involve compromise. You can’t alway get what you want all the time. Relationships can be complicated.
They are so complicated that I got sidetracked in trying to write about what men are giving up. I thought, I’ve never been married, I don’t have children, who am I to think of what is fair to ask of a man? But what makes me want to write this is the pain, the hurt, the anger that I’ve felt from men when they’ve told me about their marriages.
The running theme seems to be that if the wife couldn’t be a part of It, whatever It was, they wanted It to end.
And if they didn’t like it, it had to end.
I’m not thinking about things like drug use or substance abuse. I can understand wanting to keep the man I love healthy.
The things that I’m talking about are activities that men enjoy, perhaps even gives them joy.
Some examples of what men have given up and their wives’ reason for asking them to:
Motorcycles: Too Dangerous. Didn’t like them. Didn’t want to ride one themselves.
Target Shooting/Hunting: Didn’t like guns. Didn’t like hunting. Didn’t want to go hunting.
Dreams: Waste of time. Waste of money.
These men were sad and frustrated, resentful and angry. They’d sneak around, hiding their cigars, riding a friend’s motorcycle, doing whatever it took to enjoy themselves. What was most saddening to me were the men who felt that they had sacrificed their dreams.
YES I know that someone’s dreams can seem impractical or crazy – your husband is overweight, he’s middle-aged, he has a heart condition. He dreams of scaling Everest. I don’t want to get caught up with these types of arguments. What I am talking about is not so dramatic. The heart of what I am thinking about is being supportive of your husband. What these men felt was sadness or anger or both that their wives were not supportive of them.
Some dreams men had:
- Returning to school to change careers. The new career would bring a significant drop in income.
- Leave the safety of working for a company and start their own business. They wanted to be their own boss.
- Quit working to pursue their dream of writing/painting/sculpting/acting.
I think men want to “find themselves” just as much as women. They just don’t call it that.
I’m a woman. I’m guilty of wanting the man to spend time with me instead of spelunking. I’m not saying that there are any bad guys here or that there are simple and easy answers.
What I want is for women to really listen to what a man is saying. Listen with your heart and not with how his dreams relate to you. Listen to his desires as a friend.
Ask yourself why are you stopping him from pursuing his dreams? Is it fear? Need?
Recall My Definition Of Love
The marriage vows say “to have and to hold,” not “to have and to hold back.“
I see where you are coming from – why are these men giving up their hobbies and dreams when they get married. But the opposite is also true – why do the wives start spending their free time at car shows, doing his laundry, cleaning after spouses, rather than going to musuems, painting, and taking care of themselves?
I think it may be mutual – the guy gives up his motorcycle in exchange for a family car where other people are constantly supporting his household. If he wanted to go get groceries and the drycleaning on his motorcycle, more power to him.
Both guys and women give up some of them friends when they get married – and usually add a new group of married friends or the friends of their children. I am not in favor of men dropping all their friends, but this happens equally with guys telling their wives that some of the girlfriends are not welcome. Part of becoming a couple is determining your social sphere, and that means fewer friends or activities with just one of the spouses. The longer you are single, the more likely you are to see your friends get paired up and then have less and less contact. They do more with each other, they do more with other couples, and the social needs of married people and single people are different.
I think dreams are okay. The problem is not that people can’t achieve their dreams, it’s that they don’t even try. There are ways to try and establish a small business while still employed. There are ways to do night school. Instead, I see people watching large amounts of television and then wondering why they are in a dead end job with someone they don’t understand.
Yo cheerful – I agree with you, women make their own sacrifices or delay or never achieve their dreams when they get married. I knew my topic was bigger than a breadbox. The reason why I brought up the male side actually relates to how marriage affects friendships. I noticed that I really don’t have many close married female friends. Women seem to shift their focus to the marriage and children if they have them. I understand this. Friendships and why you have them change as you change. Like you said, the social needs are different for married and single people.
My close female friends are all single. If I were to ever get married, who knows. The dynamics will change. But I’ll have different stuff to write about. I’ll write odes to properly flattened tubes of toothpaste and the joys of double sinks.
ANYway, married women don’t tend to share much with me. But men, married or not, have shared many of their thoughts and feelings with me. I have the Buddy Factor going for me. I’ve learned that it’s difficult for men to form close relationships with other men. By close, I mean a relationship or friendship whereby they can show their so-called weaknesses, expose their fears.
When they tell me of their dreams and how their wives respond, I know that I don’t know the whole story. But what I do know is how important these men feel about whatever it is they are being asked to deny.
I’ve heard the motorcycle one a few times. The motorcycle issues has never been about money or convenience. It’s been about fear. The wife fears for the safety of her husband – that he will get hurt, killed, permanently disabled.
Why are men telling me their feelings instead of their wives? It’s partly due to the Bartender Syndrome – I am not involved. I’m not going to escalate a conversation into an argument. Let’s just say that happily married men aren’t telling me their innermost thoughts and feelings.
I agree with cheerful, it can go both ways. In fact I think on a whole men usually ask for more change than women do.
I think recalling your original definition of love covers this all very nicely. If someone is asking you to change for a relationship, you are putting an immediate strain on it, and it does not fit with “you see the flaws and either cherish them or help with changing them if that is what the other person wantsâ€. I also think that many of the complaints men or women for that matter attribute to one another are cop outs. Taking some of the examples you used, but are also common, and in fact I have some personal experience.
Good-bye Corvette hello mini-van: When I was first married, I have a 81 Corvette, Black, red interior. I later sold it for an SUV, we told ourselves we would never mini-van! Well, after discussing it with my wife, the Corvette was breaking down all the time, and we needed a larger vehicle for our growing family. I could have decided to keep the Corvette, but did it make sense. I was an active participant in our growing family, (hopefully at least, ïŠ). I could blame my wife, but I could not see any court holding her responsible.
Cigars: I still smoke them, and my wife still buys them for me. I do not smoke them in the house, but then, I never did. My wife encourages me to find great cigars, and smoke them to relax.
Boys Night Out: Why would this go away, first off if the wife just says no, then she is out of line, but I would wager that it is a result of other influencing factors. We end up with more commitments from our family, which again is a joint decision, we get too old to go out every night, or our careers require too much of out time. Another reason which is the biggest reason I finally stopped going out with the boys on a regular basis, was I enjoyed staying at home with my wife.
Taking a risk on a business venture: The only thing that changed from single to married life, was there were two people taking the risk, so it was a joint decision. Again, if you care about the other person, and the other person cares about you, it is easy. I support what you are doing, and I know that you are doing what you are doing for the both of us. I have done it twice, and I am now supporting my wife in her endeavor. Most often there are financial reasons that keep people from jumping into business.
My general belief is that these jokes and/or complaints result from other factors, and people find it easier to blame others then accept circumstances or their own decisions. If it is actually one person changing another, then recall definition of love, and re-evaluate.
I am getting married to a great guy but his friends bother me. One of his friends tried to get my fiance to look up another womens skirt in front of me. My fiance did not do it. All of his friends are single and it bothers me. I am worried that he might miss being with just his friends and not having a “wife” at home. I know he does not feel this way because I have asked him but I still feel it. I guess I am affraid of not knowing what is going on. I like being part of everything at all times. Only when it comes to his one friend because I do not trust him. Is it normal to fell uneasy about your “man” being with his single friends? Please Help me I am wanting to change this about me and Have no idea how to change it.
TinTal: I’ll answer you as honestly as I can based on my own experience but please keep in mind that I am not, well, a certified relationship expert.
You wrote that your fiance is a great guy and his actions (he didn’t succumb to peer pressure to look up a woman’s skirt) show that he is his own man and sensitive to your feelings.
He says that he won’t miss being with his friends yet you still have fears. Does he give you any reason to distrust him? That is, when he goes out with his single friends, do you think they are leading him astray? If he is his own man, secure in himself, he won’t bend to peer pressure.
While it doesn’t bother me if a man I’m dating hangs out with his single friends, I believe that your feelings are shared by many women.
You mention an overall uneasiness about his single friends and then you mention distrusting one in particular – what is it about this particular friend you don’t trust? Have you spoken to your fiance about it?
Overall, I don’t want to force people to do anything – give up friends, give up bad habits or even do healthy activities. People should be allowed to make their own decisions.
When it comes to this friend of your fiance that you don’t trust, without knowing the nuances, I can only suggest that you communicate your feelings and allow your fiance to make his own decision about maintaining the friendship.
You wrote: “I guess I am affraid of not knowing what is going on. I like being part of everything at all times.”
I have to admit – when I’m dating someone, I like knowing what is going on, too! Women do tend to want to know all the details because that is what we do – share all the details with each other. While I like to know what is going on, I’ve learned to let go of *needing* to know what is going on.
When you write “I like being a part of everything at all times.” I sense you have a great deal of fear – perhaps of abandonment?
I continue to deal with my own issues regarding love and relationships in general. I have recently read 2 books by David Richo:
- How To Be An Adult In Relationships: The Five Keys To Mindful Loving.
The 5 keys are: Attention, Affection, Allowing, Appreciation, and Acceptance.
-When Love Meets Fear: How to Become Defense-Less and Resource-Full
This book is very spiritual in nature and sometimes a bit repetitive for my taste but it has helped me realize the fears I have when it comes to love. The author mentions that early relationships (like that with our parents) can create a physical/psychological response that is totally unrelated to our current situation. For example, you’re a child and crying and your parents ignore. You feel abandoned and left out.
Now you’re an adult and your fiance goes out with friends and your body/mind reacts to the OLD situation and you feel abandoned.
After reading this book, I’ve realized that I have a few fears to face!
One of the quotes in his book is:
“The only way to say no to fear is to say yes to love.
The only way to say yes to love is to say no to fear.”
I’m a 42-year-old woman who has gone through her share of heartbreak and I am by no means a relationship expert. What I have found is the more I improve myself, the better the relationships I have with others. As I apply those 5 keys to my relationship with myself, the more accepting I am of others as well.
I wish you well on your journey towards change.
My husband has never given up his hobby. I think women don’t want too much from their husbands, I definitely don’t. But when you beg for a vacation or going out and all he takes you to grocery shopping every week! Or go for vacation once in 4years and it’s only for a week. There’s serious problem. Simply I want him to pay attention to me at least sometimes. Men are lazy and selfish and they just want to do what they want. They are just big kids. They will never help at home with anything.
If you ask my husband if he is happy, yes, he is, he doesn’t have to do anything and everything is ready for him, when he needs it. If you ask woman if she is happy, the answer will be NO. They want us to do everything, work full-time, be parent full-time and be full time housewife as well.
Woman just have to do everything and that’s why often they choose to be on their own, because the last thing I need to come home after a long day and walk after a stinky dirty male, who is not able to clean after himself. These are simple, basic things. I am tired of being his/their slave!