Aug 12 2007
The Root of All Evil – Ego? Parenting, Poverty and Self-Esteem
I wanted to respond to Jill of Twipply Skwood comments on my post about Hearing a Child Crying.
In the comments that followed that post, I wrote that I thought bad parenting and esteem issues were the cause of the majority of the problems in the world. I went on to say that some may blame poverty but I thought bad parenting would fit in as well.
Jill wanted to refute that point and gave 2 examples – one with a mom having money problems, another who did not. I admit, she’s a mom – I am not. I can’t speak about the pressures of motherhood. Nor can I speak of poverty, as luckily I have no experience with poverty.
I think that Jill and I are looking at “bad parenting” from 2 different viewpoints so we’re not really discussing the same thing.
From what I can see Jill’s statement is this:
- Two mothers.
- Each has self-esteem, good self-worth.
- One has money – one does not.
My statement or framework is this:
- Two mothers.
- One has healthy self-esteem – one does not.
- Both are poor.
Jill’s case:
Both mothers are taking care of their children the best way they know how. But they both seem to have an idea of what good parenting is but hey, they are human and can be upset and irritated and get mad.
My case:
Let’s make Mom1 a woman with low-self esteem due to her having bad parenting.
Instead of saying, “I can’t take ONE MORE THING” she may say to her daughter, “I work my A** off for you little sh*ts and you can’t even make something as simple as koolaid! I give up so much for you and now I’m exhausted and you guys don’t do anything to help out and when you do something you DO IT WRONG.”
Low-esteem people tend to want to drag everyone down to their level (or how they feel about themselves) to make THEM feel better about themselves. Mom1 in Jill’s version (if Mom1 has self-worth) may apologize to her daughter later on, taking responsibility for her actions.
Mom1 in my version?
- She’ll feel justified.
- She’ll feel righteous.
- She’ll feel good about herself in a very weird way but it’s her way to feel good about herself.
The problem with poverty is that it usually creates an environment where people have little self-worth. So bad parenting begets bad parenting. A legacy of shame, a legacy that will continue unless someone (mentor, Big Brother, Big Sister, teacher) comes into the child’s life.
Which is why I believe that Jill and I are not really arguing the same point.
Abraham Maslow came up with a theory he called a “Hierarchy Of Needs”.
Maslow’s theory contended that as humans meet ‘basic needs’, they seek to satisfy successively ‘higher needs’.
Basic needs are physiological: eating, drinking, sleeping and sexual.
When a person’s Basic Needs are met, they can “move up” to Safety Needs and so on to Love/Belonging/Social needs, Esteem needs, Cognitive needs and finally Growth (self-actualization) needs.
If you believe in his theory then you can see that if your basic needs aren’t being met, you won’t be worrying about your self-esteem.
If you look at our cases, you could see that Jill and I are both right and possibly, both wrong.
I realize that personal development, growth and even love, are all luxuries.
I’m not scrabbling around worrying about food or shelter. I am safe.
Self-esteem is luxury.
If you have 2 mothers, one with money and one without, one with self esteem and one with none, who do you think will be the better parent?
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MsQ nice discussion you’re starting here! I’m not sure I quite follow though…
As far as Maslow is concerned, I think there’s an important difference between having self-esteem, and giving priority to working on your self-esteem. Self- esteem is something you have or you don’t regardless of which needs are met. But maybe that’s what you mean too?
In answer to your last question, I do not think the amount of money you have is an indication of how good a parent you are. I don’t even think self-esteem in itself is a determining factor of being a good parent. It’s a whole discussion in itself, but I do think you can empower your child without feeling very good about yourself..
Self-esteem, combined with the ability to give your child its own self-esteem of course are indeed important factors.
But so are empathy, respecting others, etc. etc.
As far as the problems of the world are concerned, that’s the most interesting one.. To me, there the whole issue is finding the balance between self-esteem and respect/empathy for others..
Ellen: I’m glad you’re continuing the discussion! I figured I had missed some points as well as nuances.
You’re right – there is a difference between having self-esteem and giving priority to working on it. I hadn’t thought of it that way.
When it comes to having self-esteem or not I think you can have it even when your basic needs aren’t met. But I think you have to have it first, that is, your worthiness must have been fostered within you. So you’re raised with little but your parent or someone makes you feel worthy. You take that with you whatever your circumstances.
If you don’t have any self-worth, you do have to work on believing in yourself and it’s great if you have someone who believes in you and encourages your self-belief. But you have to do the work! I think people can “make” you feel good about yourself but when it comes to good self-esteem, if you weren’t raised in a loving and accepting environment, then you may have to make some serious efforts toward building your self-esteem.
Yes, it is an entire discussion in itself (and one I hadn’t even begun to think of) about how a parent with low esteem can empower their own children. I think this is true – with caveats. I’m no psychologist, my idea of “caveats” is just a sense of things I have seen and experienced – that a child may become empowered but there will be some edges I guess you could say.
Self-esteem, respect and empathy…I think of so much of what makes us unhappy is our ego and our ego can wreak havoc on not only our lives but others.
Thanks for your thoughtful response to this post and for really contributing to this discussion!
Another author/psychologist I like (he has a very spiritual side as well) is David Richo.
He wrote:
“How To Be An Adult in Relationships”
and
“When Love Meets Fear: How To Become Defense-less and Resource-full”
Dr. Richo writes of our earliest needs to receive love and the “Five A’s that identify those needs: Attentive, Accepting, Appreciation, Affection and Allowing. Dr. Richo, noted the natural desire we have for receiving attention, for being accepted as we are, for being appreciated, for receiving affection and for being allowed to be exactly as we are.
Here’s a link about a presentation he did.
I’m always surprised at how resilient children can be, Maslow or no Maslow. One year I had this class – there were kids who were well cared for, but they were the exception. One had seen her pregnant aunt murdered, one had already been kidnapped once and brought counterfeit hundred dollar bills, one told me she was the devil, one being raised by a sister bec. her dad was dead & mother had been declared unfit…that kind of thing. And over 80% were on free lunches/below poverty level. I forget where I was going with that, because actually it was a poorly behaved class & hard to teach. But talking to them one on one it was so easy to forget what hardships they had already endured by age 6…sorry, totally lost the point. My point was…ummm….I think it was that Maslow has a **great** model and I admire the concept, but it’s also more complicated than just a pyramid chart could lead one to believe.
Well…on to a different point until I can remember that one. I think at best there are more than self esteem issues here:
“I work my A** off for you little sh*ts and you can’t even make something as simple as koolaid! I give up so much for you and now I’m exhausted and you guys don’t do anything to help out and when you do something you DO IT WRONG.â€
I think if you were to ask that mom if she really wanted her daughter to feel badly about herself, that mom would say no. I think that there are tons and tons of parents out there who
-don’t know the effect their words have on their children
-are merely repeating the words their parents used on them
-aren’t introspective enough to wonder how repeating the hurtful words effected them and so don’t think it will harm their children either: the old “it was good enough for *me* when I was a kid!
-even if they realize their way of disciplining isn’t the best, don’t **know** any other ways to discipline/guiding/teaching/etc.
-or, *have* heard of other ways of disciplining/guiding/teaching/etc. but aren’t convinced they work
-have no experience with children and/or child development and don’t realize how complicated a task mixing up koolaid is for a child
- (and this was my parents’ generation) were taught that adults should never, ever apologize to children
Add to that the economic circumstances and/or the self esteem and there’s just no way on earth that person is going to independently realize that they’ve spoken to their child inappropriately except perhaps for the realization that the choice of curse words might not have been the best. Even that one might not occur to someone for whom a curse word is just regular vocabulary.
You know what? I think I might just be too tired to compose anything halfway coherent!!! I have to agree that someone with great self esteem could probably do a parenting job than people with lousy self esteem, but as a person somewhat lacking in self esteem…well, I just gotta hope I can do okay anyway.
:-0 :-0 :-0
Here’s the thing I think that gets me, and it has so little to do with your original post I think but it just hit a hot button for me:
I get so tired of seeing people MOSTLY OTHER MOMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nit pick each other to death over what they consider poor parenting. Even the most ***conscientious*** parent out there screws up now and again, takes shortcuts, serves ice cream for breakfast once in a great while or whatever. Even the ***worst*** parents out there really do love their kids, even if the best they can do parenting them is just flat out lousy.
Somewhere in between are the majority of us and yet so many people act as if there’s only **one** right way. I hate hearing “Why doesn’t she (fill in the blank).” Well, ’cause she’s not you, that’s why not. I mean, I don’t believe in koolaid but I try not to give my koolaid loving friends a hard time about it. They’re not going to stop drinking it no matter how hard a time I give them, and besides, they’d probably drink orange juice if they could afford it…where was I again?
Oh yeah, I was too tired to make a good, solid point. I think my good solid point is that ***most*** parents do the best they can with what they’ve got, that perfect parents don’t really exist and that we’d all be so much better off if we spent time helping each other out.
Like this – how often do people complain about whiney crying babies in the grocery store check out lane? NO child likes grocery shopping. By the time they’ve hit the register, mom’s at the end of her rope, child is at the end of his or her rope and to top it all off mom can’t do right! If she buys the whiney kid some candy, strangers glare at her for spoiling. If she lets the kid whine and cry, strangers glare at her for having a rotten noisy kid.
If I’m in line behind her and happen to have the energy, I try and play peek a boo or something with the kid. It doesn’t hurt and usually the mom is grateful. It’s like that dime thing, and I don’t even have a story about a rotten mom when I leave the grocery store…I don’t know.
Enough money for health insurance and food would be good, some solid self esteem would be great, and giving each other a break would be oh so welcome too. Other than that we have to just do the best we can & hope & pray that both their outer and inner children come out okay in the wash.
Oops – and sorry for the effecting/affecting mix up there! :-0 :-0 :-0
Hi MsQ, this is turning out to be quite a book wish list you’re giving me
! A BIG thanks! I love to read, especially books that help me ‘grow’. This one from dr Richo really sounds like an interesting one, cool!!
The point I made on empathy is again another discussion, it’s something we see unfortunately in my own country. Where self-esteem has gone a bit over the top.. There is a group of people who are extremely aware of themselves, of their own rights, of what they think they are entitled to. Respect for others, empathy and a sense of community then become the biggest problems…
This doesn’t mean however that I agree that self-esteem is so incredibly important to a child; I loved what you said about every child needing a parent, or otherwise a mentor, Big Brother, Big Sister, teacher to come into their lives.
To me, Oprah once said it in the most inspiring way, something I’ll never forget: “Every child needs at least one person in their life whose eyes light up when they enter the room”.
It’s something I always keep in mind, even when being dead tired when picking up my kids from school or whatever: to make sure I show them the joy and proudness I get from seeing them again.
@Jill, I definitely, definitely agree with your point on saying:
“that *most* parents do the best they can with what they’ve got, that perfect parents don’t really exist and that we’d all be so much better off if we spent time helping each other out.”
Indeed, instead of always pretending to know better, and giving critique on each other, HELP each other!!
Love this topic MsQ! Sorry for giving such a long comment…
Jill: Yes, children can be very resilient and the amazing thing is that a little love can go a loooong way.
“I think if you were to ask that mom if she really wanted her daughter to feel badly about herself, that mom would say no.”
I agree with you. However, as someone who has unfortunately given subtle digs to people (eewww) with a sense of self righteous (and very nasty) self-satisfaction, I know that we can really fool ourselves into thinking that we “have the best” in mind for someone. I know someone who is incredibly passive-aggressive. He never does this to me but I’ll hear a recounting of the nasty and invalidating things he says. He has no idea. He really thinks he is a nice guy. What is interesting is that he only does it to people he knows he can get away with it with – who don’t fight back or who don’t know enough to call him on it. All they know is they feel badly about themselves after speaking with him.
I had no idea he was this way because he never did this to me. When I tried to bring up his passive-aggressive behavior (being very careful about it) he really has no idea, is totally aghast, denies that hurting anyone is his intention. Which is why I think that a mother may not really desire to make her children feel badly about themselves but that is what may happen anyway.
Which does match into what you say that she may only be repeating the words she heard as a child herself.
I have heard mothers complain about how judgmental other people and parents can be. I have also seen how sneering some women can be of “breeders.” It was a bit freaky to see one of my neighbors (I wrote about “Blondie” in one post) want to have “adult only” type parties using our apartment complex’s meeting room. Uh..the meeting room is for everyone and everyone includes families. I get a bit overwhelmed by kids running around and screaming but I’m not against them. Blondie seems to despise children and the women who have them. But I digress.
I have also read how mothers feel like they have to be apologetic about their children – like they can’t bring them anywhere. I dunno. I have to admit, if I’m in a restaurant and sitting next to a stranger’s child and that child is banging the back of his chair against mine or screaming, I wince. If I see the parent trying his best, OK. If I see the parent ignoring their child, it bugs me. I may not be a parent but I don’t think that taking care of children is easy. Kids cry, they get upset and I remember running around a store as a child myself. I get upset with parents when I see them endangering their kid or setting a bad example (like allowing them to litter or even littering themselves). What’s endangering?
I get very paranoid when I’m driving in a supermarket parking lot. I back out and I can’t see anything below my trunk – like a child. I’ve sometimes walked towards my car and see parents or adults chatting with each other and their child is off running around the parking lot! EEEk! One guy I know was parallel parked on the street and was backing up to get out and some mother had allowed her kid to get behind his car! She was angry WITH HIM! He saw the kid before she did. Freaky.
Overall, I look at parenting as a “people do the best they can with what they have” type of thing. What else can we do? I never had children and I think that if I had, I’d be worried the entire time that I’d eff ‘em up. Which I’m told is probably the sign that I’d be a great parent!
My parents were young when they had me and far from perfect. Do I have Issues? Yep. But they also gave me values (honesty, respect, morals). They did the best they could. The rest was up to me. Blame is a losing game and the one that loses is the blamer.
Ellen: Glad you are interested in the books I’ve mentioned. Both authors were recommended to me! The “How To Be Adult” book was a recent recommendation which led me to his “Love meets fear” book. I love Richo’s “Five As” – Attentive, Accepting, Appreciation, Affection and Allowing. I remind myself of them on regular basis when it comes to my relationships. Especially Allowing and Appreciation – my weak areas! How loving it is to allow someone to be who they are and to appreciate them for who they are. That seems so beautiful to me.
Thanks for passing on Oprah’s quote: “Every child needs at least one person in their life whose eyes light up when they enter the roomâ€
It makes me think of something mentioned in the book, “Vital Friends” by Tom Rath. He recounts how one runaway teenager’s life was changed by someone who believed in her. He asked the woman, “Who expects you to be somebody” and she said ‘Jessica’ the name of her friend.
That’s something – to have someone in your life who believes iin you. They help you to believe in yourself.
I agree with you. I don’t think poverty plays a huge role in parenting. It should be how parents handle situations, especially problems like this.
I believe that problems like poverty are our responsibility. It may be a factor in parenting but not necessarily a reason why parenting fails.
I agree with Geri that it all comes to responsibility. As parents, we agreed to the responsibility of taking care of our children and it would mean sacrifice for their sake.
I agree with Geri that it all comes to responsibility. As parents, we agreed to the responsibility of taking care of our children and it would mean sacrifice for their sake.