Sep 20 2007
It’s Not Always About Sex
[A little break from The Sign Of the Dog series.]
A couple of nights ago I was at a bar.
Despite what you may think, I do not go to bars with any kind of regularity!
I had attended a meeting of a business group I was thinking of joining.
After the meeting the group invited me to join them to have a drink at the bar just down the street. It seems they do this regularly as a way to not only network but to socialize.
At the bar we separated into clusters that would break and then reform into new clusters.
I ended up talking with two of the men in the group, both in their early 30s, both hip looking.
The white guy was Urban Hip: dark treated jeans, tight shirt showing a chest that had regular workouts and a dark leather jacket.
The Asian guy was Tech Hip: narrow black frame glasses, open button down shirt showing a white tee shirt, tan slacks, wide black belt.
I was … my usual self.
I was sipping a glass of house red. Urban Hip was asking Tech Hip if he wanted to split a beer. He had just finished his first, wasn’t up to a full second. Tech Hip was just finishing his Dirty Martini and he said, “Sure.”
We had moved on from business topics and Urban Hip began discussing his latest date. The conversation bounced between the three of us, me chiming in with “Oh, so you he was your wingman?” to Tech Hip saying, “You mean you didn’t remember her at all?”
At one point we ended up discussing jealousy. Tech Hip said that he wasn’t the jealous type but sometimes he felt that this wasn’t a good thing. Urban Hip and I looked at him.
Tech Hip explained that it seemed that because he wasn’t the jealous type, some girlfriends had assumed that he didn’t care about them.
I said that I wasn’t the jealous type either and thought relationships should be based on trust.
Urban Hip took a sip of his very dark beer. He shifted his weight from one leg and then to the other. He looked at us.
He said, “Sometimes jealousy is good. It lets you know you’re feeling something, you know? Because sometimes you wonder if you feel anything anymore. It’s good to know you still do.”
I admit I was surprised to hear him say that. I had fallen victim to making an assumption based on his Urban Hipness. Tech Hip didn’t say anything, just looked respectfully at Urban Hip.
I said, “Oh. I know what you mean. You wonder if you’ve built so many walls that you can’t love anymore.”
Urban Hip tipped the rest of his beer down his throat and said, “Yeah. Jeez.I better stop talking. None of this being vulnerable stuff!”
He shrugged his black Urban Hip backpack onto his shoulders, nodded his goodbyes to the rest of us and left.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
How can you be ANY kind of hip and SPLIT a beer?!?!?!?!?!?!?! KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That does sound like an interesting conversation. I’m not sure jealousy is so bad though. I mean, acting on it can be bad, but if it’s just a feeling of wanting more of a person’s attention and for less of that person’s attention to be spent on something/someone else, I don’t think it HAS to be bad in and of itself.
Jill: Urban Hip looked like he took care of his hip self - what with his muscles and all. He looked fit and healthy without the buffed and polished sheen of metrosexuality. He probably had to drive.
I have experienced a little jealousy but not while dating anyone. Maybe it’s more like envy. I’ll like someone but he’s already dating someone. I feel a bit of envy that she has someone I like.
But even that is kinda low-grade because if I find out that someone is married/dating I get un-attracted.
I don’t think jealousy is bad in and of itself as long as it doesn’t reach some unhealthy level.
I personally don’t want to date a jealous person. I have a lot of male friends and a few of them are exes. I dated one jealous guy. Yeeesh. I dunno. I’ve never had a relationship where I had any thought to be jealous.
I think Urban Hip was a bit surprised at what he said, hence his big getaway.
So, did you get any?
Perhaps he shouldn’t have had a beer at all. None of that might have come out.
I remember one relationship I had where my girlfriend didn’t think I cared at all. She would hug up on dudes and see if I was looking. Hoping to spark some sort of rage out of me, she came right out and asked, “do you ever get jealous?” I had to ask her if she was doing all that on purpose. She told me yes because it didn’t appear that I cared what she did. All this in front of other people. Making a spectacle of herself and a joke out of me (in my own mind).
Who has time to be up on someone telling them how they should act around other people. You either do it in front of me or do it behind my back. I had to leave her alone. You go that far to spark something without a conversation on feelings and I’m ghost. Children’s games.
I hope I didn’t miss the point on this one. But often we say things out loud to see how people react. Dude made himself transparent and that isn’t such a bad thing. It just scared him and made him depart. I’m sure he’ll have much time to reflect.
Do you always bring out the sensitive side of folks Ms. Q?
HTMKSteve: Uh…didn’t you read the post title?
UT: That girlfriend sure went the long way around to communicate to you! I wonder at couples who choose to argue in front of others. I guess some feel safer, that others act as a bit of a buffer so things don’t escalate.
But yeah, that was pretty immature and insecure behavior on her part. It takes a level of self-respect and self-love to ask someone, “I would like [X]” Many people were raised in families where “indirection” was how you got things - “guilting”, passive-aggressiveness, no assertiveness at all.
No, you didn’t miss the point on this one, at least I don’t think you did! The point was that everyone has a desire for love, a deeper level of feeling - even hip dudes in bars! It’s not always about sex.
I did wonder if what he said was a ploy as women do like to see the ’sensitive’ side of men but it didn’t make sense that he would be in any type of “ploy’ mode as it was just me and Tech Hip listening to him. I felt like one of the boys what with how they were talking. Meaning: I didn’t think he was out to impress me with his sensitive side.
Even if it was a ploy, like he was on auto-pilot, maybe my response surprised him. Maybe he was expecting some type of joking response. Sometimes when people say those types of things I really wonder at where it’s coming from so I respond to the point of origin as opposed to brushing it off or making light.
I have no idea about bringing out the sensitivity in people…but people do tend to express their feelings and thoughts around me. In this case I hadn’t felt like I had really “connected” to either man in any way, I mean I had just met them a couple of hours ago and we had just spoken about business/casual stuff.
I think I’ve pretty much admitted to being insanely jealous, but to my credit I’m very practical about it.
I am very jealous of anyone with a large plate of chicken…(and I’m having steak) To solved this…”Pink Panthereeze”…I often order both and look like a glutton. Gluttony is better than Jealousy - you can quote me on this one.
That Steve…….
Speedcat: You sound like my mom. When given a choice between two things she’ll answer, “BOWF” She can’t pronounce “TH” and she hates making a choice.
I think Steve is just asking what most of you are curious about but are too polite to ask!
My previous girlfriend was ALWAYS jealous when I would hang out with other people especially if there were other girls. I never was jealous and didn’t mind if she hung out with guy friends and what not. I too told her that it’s all about trust… hm! I guess it’s also true though, that if you feel jealousy it still means you have feelings, which is always a good sign!
-Gregg
Gregg: Interesting how so many people think that jealousy indicates some depth of feeling. It’s made me wonder at my own feelings for boyfriends in the past.
I never have had huge jealous feelings and when I have been jealous it was based on insecurity. I once dated a very handsome guy. Now…of COURSE I think that all the men I dated were attractive but this guy looked like a model. Women would stare at him. Then look at me. Not the best ego-boosting exercise! I was in my early 20s at the time. I felt a bit jealous and it was all based on my not feeling good enough for him. Bleecch!
Anyway, I can see where a little jealousy might be a good thing. Is there such a thing as a little healthy jealousy? Something more along the lines of wow, I really care for this person and what would it be like if I lost him to that female friend he’s been hanging out with? Like just enough jealousy to make you appreciate the person.
I dress very much like Urban hip and don’t like all that vulnerable stuff in public either. Women lose respect for you when you do that too soon. Keep it to a minimum if ever.
Ricardo: I don’t blame men for not showing their vulnerable side. Women say they want to see it, but unfortunately, we don’t.
I’ve made light of a man’s vulnerability or not really listened in a way that I may have with a woman. I try not to do that to anyone these days. I’ve heard men tell me how they’ll show their “weakness” to a woman and it ends up being used against them in some way.
It’s too bad we all have to be so protective and that so many of us are so out of touch with what we are really feeling that we have to experience some intense emotion like anger or jealousy or pain to experience any feeling at all.
“I’ve heard men tell me how they’ll show their “weakness†to a woman and it ends up being used against them in some way. ” Indeed! I will never make such an error in judgement again.
Ricardo: Having a “weakness” used against you only shows the weakness in another.
I can’t think of any good example right now but let’s say you’re losing hair. You admit to your girlfriend that you’re afraid you’re going bald. Or perhaps you’re not losing hair but you admit your fear of it. Instead of being sensitive to the issue, perhaps your girlfriend says:
“It’s only hair! You’ll always be attractive to me! Don’t worry!”
Now, the above example isn’t that bad, but it doesn’t quite feel like support…
Maybe this might be better:
“I am sorry you have this fear. I would be scared if I were losing hair, too…but I love you, not your hair…”
But in the heat of anger a girlfriend might say, “%$##!! and you’re going effin’ BALD - didja know that??!!”
Oooch.
The think that the more of “me” that I expose to my friends and people I care about, the more I allow them to know me and in many ways, the more I expose, the more loving I am to myself.
I’m not saying it’s easy! I’m not even saying that I “let it all hang out.” but I do think that intimacy and soulful love is about loving an entire person, not just the “good stuff.” I hope to write a post (soon!) about soulful love.
I just hope you allow someone to see all of you. Weaknesses are usually the most human parts of ourselves. Like saying, “You know, I really just want to be held…” or simply, “I’m afraid. I don’t know why, but I am so afraid.”
A good bit of advice Me.Q. But such a woman my not exsist in the twisted. existential world of Ricardo
Ricardo: Hmm. Well, maybe if you moved to New Jersey, or uh, Michigan or er, Houston you may find such a woman.
I meet wonderful people all the time. They show me that wonderful accepting people exist!
Another thing about sharing weaknesses … the more we accept them, the less they can be used against us.
I thought you were on hiatus?? If so, I’m glad you think visiting my blog is a hiatus!