Oct 04 2008
How Low Can You Get?
If you had an online dating profile and someone emailed you saying that perhaps you should lower your expectations, what would you think?
I mean, are your expectations too high?
So let’s say you’re tall dark and handsome, fit, fun and loaded. Loaded with money.
People would say you could “get” whatever you wanted. Or whomever.
Or maybe you are old, kinda dorky, a tad eccentric, a lot flabby and want a supermodel. People would say (who are these people??) that maybe you should lower your expectations - or at least change them a bit.
Of course, if you have a high net worth - oh, some type of income with more than 6 zeroes trailing after it as well as liquidity to match…. you could probably get whomever you wanted. You could have bad hair, no hair, ear hair and even a funky smell.
It might take some effort but if you got bucks you can usually somehow manage to find that Special Someone.
I’m not sure how Gender Equality works but it seems that for women looking for love…assets aren’t the draw. Youth and beauty are what it takes to level the playing field.
So how about you’re attractive, fit, in shape, have dealt with most known issues: parents, commitment, self-esteem, tendency to implode/explode…
You’re usually happy, have an overall positive outlook and you’re looking for someone like yourself who’s around your age.
Is this…unreasonable?
Is this some pie-in-dah-sky dream?
.
Are you “Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs”?
Just wondering.
So there you are, with your online dating profile thinking you’re not being all that unreasonable with your expectations.
I mean, what’s unreasonable in asking for someone with the same qualities you have who’s just a lot taller?
You log into your dating site. Maybe you’re eating Cocoa Puffs or looking in the sky for rhubarb pie.
Or apple.
Or Boston Cream.
Wow! You got mail!
The sender has no photo.
.
The note has poor spelling and grammar and the author’s computer seems to be missing the apostrophe key.
.
The sender has eye problems. Well, “eye before ee” problems.
You check out their profile.
“My ideal match is about 5′5 smart and very attentive.”
“I prefer a partner that will except me with love that is unconditional and binding.”
That binding part is kinda freaky.
I might accept the man but except the bindings!
You re-read the short note.
The sender tells you that you are interesting along with some words of uh, wisdom.
You’re told:
” you might need to lower your exspectatios of Mr Right good thinks come in smaller packages.”
So back to my original question - should you lower your expectations?
Which really is, should I lower MY expectations? As if you couldn’t guess this was about ME?
I already know the answer - nope.
I certainly wonder at someone who is essentially saying that they don’t live up to my [sic] exspectatios.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
My dear - never lower them! You are a brave women to try dating online - I know I could never do it so I stay married.
I have to say that this guy has balls - but obviously no brains…
Do you know that dating guy? http://www.advicefromasingledatingexpert.com/ He writes a lot about this particular subject.
It’s tricky because I don’t think necessarily that being open to dating people “against type” is the same as lowering your expectations, but still some would maybe, I’m not sure.
I AM sure that I have a lot more to say about this particular subject, but it is SUCH a GORGEOUS day out that it is an absolute CRIME to be indoors on a computer.
So more later, but yeah, I’m thinking there’s no point in dating someone who doesn’t live up to your exspectatios, that’s for certain!
Ok, the gorgeous day has turned into night & let me see if I can figure out what I was trying to say -
That dating guy is always encouraging people who write in to cast their nets a little wider & people are always accusing him of encouraging them to lower standards.
Sometimes it seems like it makes sense - someone who loves short hair trying dating someone who has long hair or whatever. I do have a friend who I think that not necessarily her expectations are too high, but that the perfect guy could have fallen in her lap several times over and she might have ruled him out even before meeting him for this, that or the other reason.
I already cast my vote for trying out a new “type”. Not lowering your expectations as far as the guy being a good match for you, but…y’know…against type worked for me.
All that said, Mr. Expectatios sounds a little on the scary side!!!!! I don’t mean you should lower EXPECTATIOS mind you!!!!!!!
Those you should never, ever EVER lower!!!!!!! I wonder if he has any idea whatsoever how his email comes off?? I’d be sort of surprised if he did I guess because he doesn’t seem like much of a writer.
And on a totally unrelated note, I wish I could get one of those comment things on the sidebar like you have! I took off my blogroll ’cause I can’t seem to keep it up to date. But I thought one of those comment things like you have would be neat. But I can’t seem to get one to work like yours. I found one that just showed the first part of the comment, but that was it. And it only linked back to the comment.
Anyway…Mr. Right…Mr. Right…whoever he is, we know he can spell and proofs his email. Yoo hoo????? Mr. Right?!?!?!?! Next email to Ms.Q I expect to be from YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OH! Drat! I never even said the part that reminded me of the dating guy! (that’s what I get when I read & then comment later!!!). He also talks a lot about the people getting what they want compared to what they have to offer. I don’t know how that fits into whatever it was I said, but that’s what made me think of that guy. He has a lot to say about that kind of give & take I guess - dorkiness vs. money vs. looks or whatever and that kind of thing.
HAHA! Reading about your thoughts and experiences with this guy amused me. I can see why he ended up on a dating website. If I were you, I don’t think that I’d give the guy a chance. And usually I’m someone who says that most people should just go for it!
I think that you need to establish exactly what are absolute necessities and what are just things that you want. Once you get that down, the rest will be easier. So maybe re-evaluate expectations.
I think “pretty much like me but a lot taller” is NOT unreasonable—especially for short chicks like you and me.
And I like my expectatios with milk, thank you.
I don’t think anyone would want to lower their expectations for someone who doesn’t know proper grammar usage, let alone spelling. I’m not perfect so I cannot come down on someone else for not having their selves together. However, hold on to your expectations. But you already know this.
People are just saying “please meet me on my level. I have no intention of trying to get to where you are or want me to be.” Or maybe they are on some other stuff like, “meet me half way and help me get there.”
Interesting UT…
Skipper: thanks for thinking I’m brave! I’ve been doing online dating for so long that I’ve forgotten how intimidating it was when I first slapped together a profile! I have serious doubts you’re staying married just to avoid online dating! Dating in general is not the most fun. Dating was certainly easier when I was chock full o’ youthful ignorance and low esteem and pretty much would go out with anyone who asked who I found attractive. Now I want the combo-pack of being attractive and compatibility. NOT so easy!
Yeah, the guy had some kiwis! Perhaps he was hoping for some angry response because it would be a response of some kind!
Jill (part 1): I have read that dating guy - you told me about him back in the day! I revisited his site - some interesting things and I hadn’t realized I had seen his book out at the library! I flipped through it to see if it would interest me and eh, not much was applicable. Humorous but not applicable. Of course, maybe I am clueless and the book (Something about what your friend are afraid to tell you about why you haven’t met anyone) was all about me. I don’t read dating advice websites. They are kinda a bummer.
Jill (part 2): I can see trying to cast my net a bit wider and I have dated different types. Ex-military. Librarian. Self-employed actor/poet. Child psychologist. Many geeky-tech types who I get along with very well. I did date outside my age range - the guy was 14 years older and just a wonderful person but he wasn’t all that energetic for a relatively fit person. Not that all older people don’t have energy. Both Younger and Older Dudes are highly energized!
I’m not sure what it is but most color-free men around my age don’t hold up that well. It’s strange. But someone else said that many people lie about their age so maybe that’s why these 48 year old guys look to be 54.
Mom is rooting for younger men and I’ve lowered my age range. I have tried to contact various “types” but it seems like I”m not their type!
“I wonder if he has any idea whatsoever how his email comes off?? I’d be sort of surprised if he did I guess because he doesn’t seem like much of a writer.”
I doubt he has any idea. His profile was a bit too “Me Man (grunt) - You Wo-Man. Wo-man submits to Man” feel to it.
I’m not on Blogger but I did google for “recent comments + blogger” and some links came up for Widgets. Sounds like you tried to add one of these Widget yourself. There’s probably one out there similar to mind for Blogger - you may have to ask a fellow Blogger!
Hehehe on Mr. Right sending me the next email!
Jill (part 3): I think I get what you mean! If I were willing to date much older men, I’d have lots of dates. Men in their early 50s (and 60s and late 70s) see my profile and are impressed. They usually write very well, love what I wrote and are very expressive. These are nice men but I can’t push past the old-age barrier no matter how hard I’ve tried!
I figure there must be a “taller male version” of myself out there. Well, a taller SINGLE male version!
Derek: Phew, I am glad that you agree that I shouldn’t give the guy a chance! When it comes to absolute necessities it’s amazing how age, humor (which usually involves a degree of intelligence) and fitness rule out most people and that’s not even all of my “absolutes!”
Christine: thanks for the support and bwhahahahah on needing milk!
UT: I am a bit pickier about grammar and writing well but in this era of text messages and email I try not to be so much of a stickler. I know a few people with dyslexia as well as people who just can’t spell (but know how to use spell checkers!) and it’s made me more understanding. I’ve had some mispelled emails and while I may note them, I try to focus on the message itself. I’ve had messages from me who know English as a 2nd language. Mr. exspectatios? He sounded bossy.
I like what you wrote about:
“People are just saying “please meet me on my level. I have no intention of trying to get to where you are or want me to be.â€
I just updated my profile a bit. I wrote it sometime last year when I was very reflective and I think it came across as too mellow and not enough fun. As I wrote Jill (part 3), older men were very impressed by my writing (and of course by my charms!!) and one even said that if I wasn’t a writer, I should consider it.
So my profile appealed to the type of person I wanted (self aware, kind, highly intelligent, good esteem) but was perhaps too serious for the men my age! I did write up my profile to filter out casual daters and it worked a bit too well!
Jill (part 4): Yep. And Dang, thanks for all the comments! I appreciate all the advice, support and feedback.
Yeah, I think…I think maybe there are older guys who are young for their age and younger guys who are old for their age and for that reason I don’t think just the number says it all & if you find the exceptions maybe it was worth wading through a little? Maybe that’s what he means by casting the net a little wider?
This story reminds me of this guy, I think I already knew you when I was dating him the second time. He was the very first guy I ever dated after being divorced & I also dated him AFTER the Christian. But I’m not sure if I talked about him enough for you to remember him - a DJ from out of town. He’s ten years older than I am, making him 50 here in a month or two, but there’s no way he looks 50.
So I’d been talking to a girlfriend about how literal he takes everything, which might have just been because we communicated mainly by email which lacks tone.
Anyway, he picks me up at her house and it was only the following day when I told her how old he was. She says, “DANG!!!!!!!!!! He’s been that literal for FIFTY YEARS and he still looks LIKE THAT?!?!?!?!?!?”
So, y’know, there are good looking, active older guys out there and it might be worth pushing past the age thing at least on a case by case basis!
I mean, I guess you wouldn’t want the old age listed as what you were interested in on your profile, ’cause then you’d be wading in geezers, but you could maybe reach out to one or two who seem young for their age!
Jill: yeah, I do recall Mr. DJ and his literalness!
I’m 43 and can see dating someone 50 but it IS case-by-case. The thing is, I put an upper limit of 48 knowing that men will try to push the limit. Granted some push very hard (like the 77 year old with replacement parts) and I will think about it. Which is how I went out on a date with the guy 14 years older.
I have contacted men where I was a little older than they were looking for, unless they wanted children. I ponder if I’m a right match for someone before I contact them. I mean, they may have the qualities I’m looking for but I may not be right for them.
One guy was on target but he had photos of himself camping and hiking and what look like Aztec temples in the background. He emailed me and seemed very nice but I’m not into camping and hiking and vacations that involve insect repellent. I replied saying sorry and he said that yeah, he’d like to find someone who enjoyed those activities.
Money and shared interests are in my mind areas where couples should agree upon and help make a relationship successful.
Definitely shared interests are big one in my book. Shared interests and shared values, really. I think maybe, or at least I hope that when the interests and values are shared, money sort of follows along naturally. Though I guess there still could be major differences in whether one is a spender or a saver or whatever.
But have you ever TRIED hiking amongst Aztec temples???????? Maybe it would be fun! You like to run and you’re active and all that. Then again, I’ve hiked a volcano and Mayan temples and I HATE to run, so I guess enjoying the outdoors isn’t necessarily all encompassing or anything. At any rate it sounds like you were both very adult about it. At least he didn’t ask you to lower your expectatios or anything!!!!
Jill: yes on shared values! I kinda took that for granted. I’ve read too many relationship books (and even investment books) that advise that if you have a partner, money and how you handle it can be a big issue. I’ve never really had any money issues with someone - usually we are aligned.
I did go out on one date a few years ago and the guy worked for some non-profit grassroots type of place. He was just moving to his own apartment for the first time (he had always had roommates - I live in an pricey area) . We had met at a park and he didn’t have a car and had taken the bus. I figured it would take him an hour to get back home by bus but 20 minutes if I drove him so I offered. At first he refused but I said it would be no problem and heck, I’m really harmless looking.
I have very conservative Japanese sedan. No bells. No whistles. He gets in. Says, “Nice car.” I say, “Thanks.”
We’re chatting as I drive, talking about his move to his own place, kinda exciting and I mention my own move to my own place. I had just purchased my condo around that time.
He looks at me. I’m not sure but between owning a car and having my own place, I think it bothered him. I never heard from him again although I did email him to check in - just in case. We were about the same age and and here I was with a car and a home. I just recalled how he looked…a bit like..adding it all up and figuring that hmm, this gal must make at least double what I do.
After that I realized that some men are bothered by women who make more. Doesn’t matter how much more, but the more is what matters!
I had never really had to worry about it as most of my friends either knew me when I made diddly or are in the same tax bracket!
So now I pay attention to their stated income. If a man makes a lot less, I pass. Just easier. From an emotional standpoint, I’ve noticed that men are usually happier, less worried and more confident if they have a certain level of income. It makes sense too. I have heard a few men say, “I can’t think about dating right now - I don’t have enough money.”
Not that all men have their ego involved with money. But the ones who aren’t struggling sure are more relaxed!
I haven’t tried hiking amongst Aztec temples. I have camped on the beaches of Costa Rica and been eaten alive by no-see-ums. I have backpacked and heard the whine of mosquitoes trying to suck my lifeforce but stopped by the netting. I do like laying in a sleeping back and looking up at the stars but if presented with a bed and a sleeping bag - BED wins. I like the outdoors. But I want to go to bed at night!
Certain things I can guess at not liking. I don’t like high humidity. I don’t like blood sucking insects. I’ve had both. I also figure I won’t like skiing because I hate slippery and I hate skilled movement. Skiing would take too much effort. Now..I tried snowshoeing. That was fun. A friend figured I would because I enjoy hiking. So I might enjoy crosscountry skiing for the same reason. But sliding down some snow at rapid speeds? Nuh-uh.
I don’t mind a day hike but not an entire vacation of hiking and camping.
No, the guy was very nice. Most of the men who actually WRITE are very nice. The “winks” and suchlike I don’t pay much attention to. If the guy has taken some time to write something thoughtful, I’ll respond.
Mr. esxpectasios (I’ll probably end up spelling this way now!) did not get a response from me. I don’t think lectures are the way to a woman’s heart.
I refuse to lower my standards or expectations. And I would really hate to be fooled / lured in by someone dishonest about who they really are…..height wise and/or bank account.
Lower your expectations so that the writer could feel like he met them better? No way. Why adjust yourself so others feel better about themselves?
Keep them where they are at, and somebody who CAN meet them will come along.
values, values, values.
and stick to your guns and don`t respond to someone who tells you what to do/feel in a message.
simple.
and be patient.
it took me two years and many dates to find a woman who shared values.
and some intestinal fortitude.
it takes guts to ask a beautiful woman difficult questions about values at times….and be ready to accept that a person may be attractive physically, but not able to understand your position regarding money or children or any one of a number of things important to you.
like the rest of us, your expectations are about shared values, and you should never comprimise those.
oh and by the way, i work out hard, play soccer three times a week and carry 8% body fat and my girlfriend told me she doesn`t care whether i was 30 pounds overweight……and that bothered me when she first said that, but we are in love and i realised that i train and play for me, not her……..and that i responded to her profile without a picture from her…..just her voice on the phone after messaging back and forth about what we cared about most (values…..)
so keep looking. you will find what you are looking for.
oh, and by the way…..my girlfriend is beautiful on the outside as well……and we celebrated six months together yesterday by spending the day with my boys and walking in the woods marveling at the fall colours….and watching the movie “dead man`s bounty” together later.
and val kilmer should get an award for his role.
You’re all making this too complicated, it’s very simple:
He’s short, socially inept and looking for mercy sex. That’s it. That’s all.
The only way he makes it anywhere is when the expectations are lowered.
If your profile reads that the man must be a model, loaded, and your sugar daddy and doormat, then I’d say that you need to calm down with all of this. Those are not expectations so much as flashes of stupidity and traits of a gold digger.
Knowing what I know about you this is likely not the case. You likely want a man that is attractive, smart, employed, takes care of himself and can hold up his end of the conversation.
Some bit of mental stability helps too with you I’m sure. But who wants a Charles Manson?
Leave your expectations where they are but don’t let too much fantasy get the better of you. But I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know.
Like the other have said, I’d vote “no” to lowering your expectations.
Your post reminded me of some of the things that were said about my profile when I tried Match. Several women said nice things about my ability to string a sentence together and my grammar in general. It appears a lot of guys were snoozing during English and Creative Writing classes.
I have tried Match & Eharmony in the past. The whole online dating thing reminded me a lot of the job interview process. Poor grammar and spelling were one of the things that would cause me to weed a guy out, but it wasn’t because I was trying to be a snob. I believe that if a gentleman did not care enough to present himself in the most positive light possible from the very beginning, imagine how things might go downhill later on! Also, I thought things like the way he writes, and other parts of their profile (yes, their education & income) were very telling in how driven they were to be a success in life.
I do not believe anybody should settle. I would much rather be alone and happy than to be in an unsatisfying relationship and always wonder if I had made the mistake of lowering my expectations just because I couldn’t deal with being alone.
“… nice things about my ability to string a sentence together and my grammar in general.”
Um, “others.”
On the income level I would have to say that it only matters if you are close (within 20%). If you are very far apart it is not much of an issue because you know from the start where both people stand income-wise.
My wife and I both made exactly the same money when we met and got married. She stopped working later (after our daughter was born) and I know it bothers her to some degree that she no longer provides income to the family.
To me the amount of income is not nearly as important as the amount of value the other person places on their work. If a prospective partner enjoys their job but does not make a lot of money I can deal with that. It’s when they make a lot of money and don’t enjoy their job that I get worried. I would not want to get involved with someone who does not make a lot (or does) who then decides they can quit the job they hate because I make enough to support us both.
Now, with all of that said I would expect the living expenses not to be split 50/50 between the two people but to be split based on income levels. If one person makes double the money of the other there is a good chance their tastes only cost more (not always) and it would not be fair to make the low income earner pay for this difference. In such a situation I would expect the split to be 66/34. I know that does not sound very Capitalistic but families are Socialist by nature.
If the income disparity is truly huge than the lower income partner could even stop working entirely and devote their time to their partner and family. I know some folks have an ego problem in this regard but if you truly love someone you will put them ahead of your ego.
In the case of bad grammar… Don’t go there.
If the guy is uncomfortable with your larger income than he is insecure and not ready for a woman like you.
Above all remember that it is better to be wanted than to be needed.
I think the man you are looking for will arrive unexpectedly. Relationships that last always do. This fellow will not fit the mold, nor guidlines you have envisioned.
Love does not follow logical doctrins, nor what we believe to be true. It follows a path of random flow, from one heart to another. Just as you see a stop sign, he will be waiting in your peripheral vision.
Standards for the heart do not apply, in my opinion. True love sees where the eyes are blind.
meleah: I agree with you and am glad you refuse! Dishonesty in a person - blech! I may not want to date them but I respect the person who puts up a profile that states that what they are looking for is a “playmate.” No lying!
Sue: I like how you phrased that about expectations: “Keep them where they are at, and somebody who CAN meet them will come along.”
alistair: As usual, great advice. Especially, “don`t respond to someone who tells you what to do/feel in a message.”
I’m leery of people telling me how to feel and I try not to invalidate how others feel, either. I mean, it’s what they are experiencing!
Thanks for sharing some of you dating experiences!
“i work out hard, play soccer three times a week and carry 8% body fat and my girlfriend told me she doesn`t care whether i was 30 pounds overweight……and that bothered me when she first said that, but we are in love and i realised that i train and play for me, not her……..and that i responded to her profile without a picture from her…..just her voice on the phone after messaging back and forth about what we cared about most (values…..)”
I recall your workout routine (or some of it) from Ricardo’s blog - yep, you work out hard! I don’t push it but I enjoy running and being fit and I run about 17% bodyfat (according to my Tanita scale) and I’m fairly energetic. So I am attracted to active and fit men. I’ve seen some men who are naturally thin but don’t exercise. Fitness is important to me.
Two years, huh? I haven’t put a serious effort into looking and just started really tweaking the profile and such. If anything, I have have exchanged great emails with some nice men. Some have emailed me just to say hi they liked what I had written and we’ve exchanged dating stories.
Congratulations on celebrating 6 months! That is wonderful!
Ricardo: Hehahaha! “If your profile reads that the man must be a model, loaded, and your sugar daddy and doormat, then I’d say that you need to calm down with all of this. Those are not expectations so much as flashes of stupidity and traits of a gold digger.”
Not even close! I describe myself and in the various checkboxes ask for a match that is a college graduate, employed with any income level. Actually, college degree isn’t a big thing for me but for a criteria, why not?
Ok, I also check the boxes for non-smoking (not negotiable!) and non-fat (fit, slim, athletic) and 36-48 years of age.
Here’s what I wrote for what I am looking for in a man: “You’re someone like me - life may have knocked you around but instead of learning how to blame, you learned compassion. You’re excited about life, you’re passionate, you laugh out loud on a regular basis and you enjoy touch.”
Hmm. Don’t see wanting to lower my standards here.
delmer: you did Match? Or tried? Not me! Mom tried it and I’m waiting to read Ricardo’s experiences!!
I bet your writing ability was complimented! I’ve gotten a few emails that were written like a text message - no capitals and punctuation. I would hope that my profile gives an indication of my intelligence and depth. When I email someone I try to show that I actually read their profile and respond in a similar manner. I may write too much (who knows) as less than a handful of men have responded to my emails in any form. When I get a well-written email I try to respond especially as these are the type of men who would appreciate some feedback.
Ginger: We think alike! I also have begun to view income level as how successful a man was in LIFE as you wrote. Based on my dating experiences, men with higher incomes (or even those who had high incomes but are having to start over) are driven and tend to have higher esteem. Just in general. I am somewhat driven so I’d prefer someone who doesn’t just hang out and wait for life to happen.
Oh, I’d much rather be alone, too! Plus, it’s not fair to “settle” for someone. You should both think you got the best of the deal!!
delmer: hehehe!! Good recovery.
HMTKSteve: Very thoughtful comment - thanks! Also astute regarding how having a close income may be more problematic. I believe you are correct. It’s great that there is someone else that share my thought that expenses should be shared on a ratio basis! I’ve thought the same thing! I figured if I dated someone who say, made half of what I did and I wanted us to fly to Capetown, I should probably pay for half of his expenses or something.
Usually I’ve dated someone who made about what I did. What I find different is that men usually will pay for meals! I will offer to pay half and they will say its on them! I admit I do like this!
But I also try to pay for things if we continue to go out - like he may buy us dinner but then we’ll go out for drinks and I’ll pay for that. Things like that. I had a few dates with a man who made half again what I did (guessing based on his listed income levels) and he paid for most things. But we also went to more high-end places which aren’t my usual choices.
I also realize that just because someone makes more doesn’t necessarily mean they have more expendable income! I have a decent salary but I have a mortgage and various bills plus I help out my mom.
Bad grammar …glad you agree with me! I’m guessing you’re not including those who speak English as a second language!
Great advice! No wonder you’re happily married!!
Speedy!! “I think the man you are looking for will arrive unexpectedly” Sometimes I feel that this will be the case. I think of this online dating stuff as increasing my chances!